NPR gets a new podcast chief

It’s a new era for NPR’s podcast operation. The network announced Thursday it is bringing in Collin Campbell, Gimlet’s former head of new show development, to oversee podcast strategy. He is coming in at a time when the network is recovering from steep layoffs and the cancellation of several podcasts including Invisibilia and Louder Than A Riot. Campbell will replace head of programming Anya Grundmann, who announced that she will leave NPR at the end of this year after spending three decades at the network.

Campbell is new to NPR, though he has done his time in public radio. He worked as a producer at WNYC, including as an executive producer of Freakonomics and a programming executive at Southern California Public Radio. After a stint at Audible, he landed at Gimlet after its acquisition by Spotify in 2019, where he developed programming until Spotify gutted the network in June.

“The last year, particularly for me, it’s been really hard, you know, to go from winning the Pulitzer Prize in audio to being dismantled three months later. To have a pretty incredible workforce sent packing was just devastating to watch,” Campbell told NPR media reporter David Folkenflik.

Gimlet was a victim of Spotify’s efforts to streamline its business after years of what critics claim was an overinvestment in podcasting. Spotify is focusing less on the deeply reported narrative shows that Gimlet was known for in favor of celebrity chat shows.

While NPR’s mission keeps it focused on journalism, the network has its own financial troubles. Corporate sponsorships are down in an uncertain (but not recessionary) economic environment. NPR, as well as the country’s largest member station, WNYC, addressed this shortfall by focusing on radio shows that can be turned into podcasts rather than standalone podcasts. It will be interesting to see how Campbell develops programming within that directive.

Podcasts are bad at making profits, but that could soon change

Deloitte put out its telecom predictions report for 2024, and it has a surprising amount to say about podcasting. Authors of the report predict that podcasting will generate $3.5 billion globally in revenue in 2024, an amount that potentially represents a 30 percent increase year over year. The report estimates that 1.7 billion people across the world will listen to podcasts on a monthly basis next year.

More is more! But it also points to a specific problem that the industry has not yet figured out. See the chart from the report below.

On a per-listener basis, podcasting generates much, MUCH less per user than other audio segments (five times less than radio, 15 times less than streaming). This means that the industry needs to keep reaching new audiences or (more likely) find new ways of getting that per-listener revenue up. And looking at that audiobook figure, it explains why Spotify is using audiobooks to help its margins.

The authors do see potential for growth with podcasts, including the rise of video podcasts, the decline of people starting (and abandoning) their shows, and YouTube’s investment in the space. “All these trends will likely draw more listeners and increase monetization opportunities for audio providers, creators, and advertisers alike, which may begin to offset the challenges that have halted profitability thus far,” according to the report.

This charting show sounds… odd

There have been times I have seen weird things on the charts and not followed up and deeply regretted it. Not this time! Ranked right behind The Joe Rogan Experience today on Spotify is The President’s Daily Brief w/ Mike Baker, a current affairs show produced by The First. Baker is a former CIA agent and recently appeared on JRE, which likely explains his ranking bump. The show debuted in 2022 with Bryan Dean Wright (also a former CIA operative) and relaunched this September with Baker.

Listening to it, though, his voice sounds unusually flat and processed, especially compared to his podcast intro and appearance on Rogan. A bunch of commenters on Apple Podcasts seem to think what we’re hearing is a text-to-speech voice emulating Baker. “Mike needs to either add personality to his voice when reading these briefs, or stop using an Al voice generator on these,” one reads. Another says, “I came for the Mike Baker commentary- this podcast isn’t him- Al reader has the [effect] of Bonzi Buddy.”

Or maybe Baker just has a bad mic and a very steady voice. I reached out to The First and have not heard back, so I’ll leave it to the experts — let me know what you think at [email protected].

Have a great weekend! See you Tuesday.

Correction 12/6/23: A previous version of this article stated that The First is owned by Bill O’Reilly. O’Reilly has a show on the network, but does not own it.