The vibes are bad for Flock in Washington

Flock is in the hot seat in Washington, even if its CEO declined to actually face senators at a hearing about its “AI Surveillance Network” on Wednesday.

“There’s many players in this industry, but there’s one name that really stands out above the rest, and that is Flock,” Senate Judiciary crime and counterterrorism subcommittee chair Josh Hawley (R-MO) said. “If you haven’t heard of Flock, all I have to say is, Flock’s probably heard of you.”

Though the CEOs of Flock and peer companies Axon, Motorola Solutions, and Verkada declined to testify, according to Hawley, seats in the hearing room were in high demand. A standby line stretched down the hallway even after they were filled. Instead of the CEOs, the hearing featured testimony from cybersecurity and legal experts, a sheriff whose department ended its Flock contract after allegedly receiving slippery answers about its AI use, and a Florida woman who said she spent 13 days in jail after her car was incorrectly identified by Flock cameras as being connected to a crime scene.

Verkada spokesperson Virginia Ramsey said the company provided information to the subcommittee to assist in preparation even though its CEO could not attend. “As we’ve explained to the Subcommittee, none of our customers can search a national Verkada network – because none exists. Our customers can only access the data in their own systems,” Ramsey said. Representatives for the other companies invited did not immediately respond to The Verge’s request for comment.

The federal hearing shows just how much the conversation around Flock has escalated, from concerns within individual police departments about reported abuse by cops, to raucous city council meetings and testy state capitol hearings — and now, a Congressional hearing. Less than two months before Election Day for the midterms, lawmakers across the aisle appeared largely aligned and even chummy over their unease about automated license plate readers (ALPRs) that hoover up location data for Americans who haven’t been accused of crimes, and can store that information, in many cases, for an entire month.

Lawmakers expressed concern about how securely Flock is able to store its vast trove of images, which cybersecurity engineer Benn Jordan said he was able to access with minimal technical maneuvering, in an incident Flock has said it’s since addressed. Jordan said he’s more recently been granted greater access to Flock to evaluate it, and said its security has improved from a year ago, but broader industry-wide issues persist. The lawmakers also took issue with how easy it appears to be for officers to access Flock data, and said it’s distinct from traditional license plate readers, whose systems don’t construct the same dossier of connected information on individual vehicles.

Democrats like Sens. Alex Padilla (D-CA) and Dick Durbin (D-IL) asked how federal immigration authorities could be legally barred from accessing Flock data, and about potential loopholes, which one witness said could be as simple as getting a sympathetic local officer to perform a search on the agency’s behalf. Sen. Cory Booker (D-NJ) asked whether officers in states that restrict abortion access could track people seeking reproductive care across state lines. On the Republican side, Hawley pointed out that similar concerns could apply for gun owners. “For those of us who are supporters of the Second Amendment, we’ve long feared national databases of any kind. You could easily put these cameras up in front of a gun show or near a gun store or a range. You can put them up in front of pregnancy care centers, and you can do all the same things that Senator Booker was talking about,” Hawley said.

But it’s still early days for legislating around Flock and other ALPRs. After the hearing, Hawley told reporters that he hadn’t heard of the company until a month or two ago, and “we’re all just getting up to speed on this.” He said he’d still like to hear from the CEOs directly, but subpoenaing them to appear would require a full committee vote, and he hadn’t yet discussed that with Judiciary Committee Chair Chuck Grassley (R-IA). Then there’s the issue of whether President Donald Trump, who recently said “I like them” of the cameras, would support legislation that restrains them. Hawley said he hasn’t asked that yet.

“In Missouri, we’ve been using license plate readers forever… but that’s really different than the technology we’re talking about today,” Hawley told reporters. “I think that’s something that I’ve only recently come to appreciate, and I bet most folks are just getting up to speed on. Citizens know though. They know when they’re being tracked. They don’t want to be tracked and treated like criminals. And I think law-abiding citizens just should not be treated like criminals.”