Ben Shapiro and the conservative podcasters after his throne

There’s a big brouhaha going on in the conservative podcasting space that is drawing in the genre’s top names. It is, ostensibly, about the Israel-Hamas war. But at its core we are seeing a play for audience in one of the medium’s most competitive spaces.

The first thing to know is that Ben Shapiro, The Daily Wire’s co-founder and the face of the network, is emphatically pro-Israel, reflecting the sentiment of the right-wing establishment. He is the biggest name in conservative podcasting, bar none. Candace Owens, a buzzy TDW star in her own right, is more firmly in the America First camp and has been deeply critical on her show and on social media of Israel’s actions and the US government for supporting them. This difference of opinion would not be so much of an issue if their disagreement hadn’t exploded all over social media.

On Tuesday, a video started circulating on TikTok of Shapiro speaking at a private event and describing Owens’ comments as “disgraceful.” Owens then posted a Bible verse on X / former Twitter with the paraphrase: “you cannot serve both God and money.” Shapiro, quoting the post, responded: “Candace, if you feel that taking money from The Daily Wire somehow comes between you and God, by all means quit.”

Owens then did the one thing that would probably piss off Shapiro the most: she went on Tucker Carlson’s X show (she later said the interview was scheduled weeks before the spat). I think a lot of the people on the left tend to lump Shapiro and Carlson together, but their split over Donald Trump put them in very different camps. For a while, they both had their own kingdoms: Shapiro and TDW, Carlson and Fox News. But now that Carlson is out at Fox and doing his X show (which is basically a video podcast), they are more directly in competition. So, in addition to discussing Jewish sentiments about Israel in a way that some observers have criticized as antisemitic, it is no surprise that Carlson was all too happy to have Owens on to talk about the feud, and she did her best to minimize Shapiro’s influence at the company.

“I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about Ben’s involvement. He’s not the CEO of The Daily Wire, he is not making day-to-day decisions of The Daily Wire. People ask me, ‘How could you possibly stay at The Daily Wire after this?’” she said. “I have a very good relationship with the CEOs of The Daily Wire.”

The next day, she showed up on Charlie Kirk’s podcast, which is part of the Salem Media Group. Kirk also took her side against Shapiro. “For the record, I’ve always gotten along well with Ben … but I call balls and strikes where I see it, and Candace, I think it’s been super unfair the way some people have been treating you,” he said.

Is it possible that Carlson and Kirk were genuinely on her side? Sure. But what seems more likely to me is that they saw an opening to go after the top dog. Conservative podcasting is a massive space that is much more fluid than traditional right-wing media, allowing for the emergence of personalities to come out of seemingly nowhere (Dan Bongino being the best example of that). As we enter a particularly contentious election season, competition for ears is going to be stiff.

Whether Owens stays on remains to be seen. She has not published an episode since Monday, even though she usually releases new episodes every weekday (though I would give her some benefit of the doubt as to why that may be, considering she is very pregnant).

TDW did not respond to my request for comment as to whether she was sticking with the network, but at least one major figure with the network seems inclined to stick with her. Shortly after this column published, Jeremy Boreing, co-CEO of The Daily Wire, wrote on X that Owens’ “job is secure and she is welcome at Daily Wire.” Boreing is currently on leave and admits he “cannot fire Candace Owens,” so there is at least some caveat to his pronouncement. But he says he would not want to fire Owens regardless because of “a desire not to regulate the speech of our hosts, even when we disagree with them.”

If Owens did decide to pursue a path outside TDW, she would have an audience. Her show regularly appears in Apple’s top 100 podcasts and she has a combined 9.4 million followers on X and Instagram. Plus, her break with Shapiro and the establishment on Israel (and foreign policy more generally) gives her a point of differentiation. I also would expect a little promo help from her friends / Shapiro’s enemies.

Update November 17th, 5:16PM ET: Updated with comments from Boreing.